2017... Formula 1 thread

Use this area for general discussion of all things non-music related, including TV, film, news, sport etc

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:49 pm

sarah t wrote:I've been looking at various analysis and clips of the start of the Singapore GP crash on YouTube and IMO I think it is Verstappen whom is to blame. He was defending from Kimi, moving a bit from side-to-side forcing Kimi into a mistake, perhaps too much power on a wet bit which caused him colliding with the Red Bull and his teammate.


I think you're in a minority of one on this Sarah, all the commentators seem to think that Vettel was the chief instigator of the crash, Verstappen was backing of when the initial coming together happened. However it did all happen very quickly. I think the stewards said it was a racing accident but I haven't seen what they said officially.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:01 pm

SubHuman wrote:
sarah t wrote:I've been looking at various analysis and clips of the start of the Singapore GP crash on YouTube and IMO I think it is Verstappen whom is to blame. He was defending from Kimi, moving a bit from side-to-side forcing Kimi into a mistake, perhaps too much power on a wet bit which caused him colliding with the Red Bull and his teammate.


I think you're in a minority of one on this Sarah, all the commentators seem to think that Vettel was the chief instigator of the crash, Verstappen was backing of when the initial coming together happened. However it did all happen very quickly. I think the stewards said it was a racing accident but I haven't seen what they said officially.


I change my mind and looking at the analysis I think both Ferrari's should take the blame equally... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czHPM0UjLNc and that Verstappen was an innocent party this time.
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:41 am

I think the accident was a racing incident. Initially Verstappen moved little towards Vettel and then straightened up. This allowed Kimi to attempt to overtake down Verstappen's left, at the same time Vettel move over towards Verstappen not realising that Verstappen had nowhere to go. That was when Verstappen tried to avoid an accident by slowing but it was too late. It was amazing that Hamilton overtaking down the outside managed to avoid the carnage.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:33 am

So Hamilton's on pole for the Malaysian Grand Prix and Vettel's at the back of the grid. Hopefully Hamilton will be able to consolidate his lead. If this happens he should end up winning the the drivers championship.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:16 pm

Well that was different and so refreshing to have Red Bull winning ahead of Mercedes and Ferrari. Verstappen didn't put a foot wrong after he passed Hamilton and Ricciardo could have got passed if he hadn't been held up for so long by Bottas. Hamilton was fairly happy with second place and Vettel back in fourth, but Toto Wolff was rather downbeat after the race because Mercedes don't understand why they were so much off the pace of Red Bull and Ferrari. It was a sterling effort by Vettel to get up into fourth after starting from the back of the grid.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby StevieD » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:20 pm

And then vettel was a tw#@ again.
User avatar
StevieD
Member
 
Posts: 1338
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:35 pm
Location: Somewhere in the distance

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:12 am

StevieD wrote:And then vettel was a tw#@ again.


I'm not sure whose fault that was and the good news is Vettel might get put back five places on the next grid if Ferrari have to change the gearbox which seems likely. =D =D =D
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:10 pm

SubHuman wrote:
StevieD wrote:And then vettel was a tw#@ again.


I'm not sure whose fault that was and the good news is Vettel might get put back five places on the next grid if Ferrari have to change the gearbox which seems likely. =D =D =D


Not that exciting a race but great 20th birthday present for Verstappen, particularly considering the bad luck he has had during the season. Quite bizarre what happened at the end of the race seeing Vettel driving with three wheels, strange... wasn't Seb looking in his mirrors???

Impressed with debut from Gasly in the Torro Rosso with some feisty battling and strong drives from both McLaren Honda cars.

Hardly time to draw breath before we head off to Suzuka and this is one that I plan to hear as it happens thanks to BBC Radio5Live! :)
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:12 pm

There only seems to be footage of Vettel's accident from his carcam and this doesn't show how the coming together happened. From the drivers comments after the event it seems they had both rather switch off after the end of the race and wandered into each other. One of the most bizarre racing incidents I've seen.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby JJ » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:17 pm

LH was totally dominant in qualifying for Suzuka and smashed Schumacher's long-standing lap record by well over a second in grabbing pole for the first time in Japan, the only place in the current F1 calendar where he'd never previously got pole.
Well who's that shouting? John, ex-Moderator - all he ever gives us is pain!
User avatar
JJ
Member
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 7:56 am
Location: Downstairs At Eric's, Sydney

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:56 am

Can't believe something as simple as a spark plug took Vettel out after only three laps and with Kimi only finishing fifth Ferrari had a dreadful Japanese GP. On the flipside Red Bull have clearly made a massive step forward and both Ricardo and in particular Verstappen kept Hamilton honest right up to the end... those last few laps were quite nailbiting with Lewis I believe having a problem with the car.

Elsewhere impressed with the move both HASS cars made to pass Massa's Williams and Alonso was unfortunate to make the move into the points at the end... more of the same (i.e. no points) from McLaren Honda.

Quite a massive gap in the drivers table with four races to go but you never know what might happen next... Austin Texas next for the US GP in a couple of weeks.
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:16 pm

Please excuse me for 'flag waving' but where are all the British F1 drivers? I can remember a time when we had four contesting the championship (who recalls the quartet of [Damon] Hill, [Eddie] Irvine, [Johnny] Herbert and [Anthony] Davidson??).

Next season (2018), with Palmer getting dumped from Renault, it looks like there will just be Hamilton and' great though he undoubtedly is, it would be much better for fans, particularly at Silverstone, to have more than one Brit to cheer on. There is a slight possibility that [Paul] DiResta might nab the second seat at Williams alongside youngster Stroll but the Scot is hardly 'young fresh talent'. Where is the next Hamilton in British motorsport??? Anyone worth looking out for in the junior categories?

Sorry rant over!
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:54 pm

On these complex V10 engines it's quite difficult to get at the spark plugs, although I would have thought they could have accessed it in the garage using special tools! Sounds like an excuse for the continuing reliability issues that Ferrari are experiencing at the moment. They managed to make their cars faster but they're breaking down quite frequently.

Lewis problem at the end was that after the virtual safety car let his tyres cool down he couldn't get them warmed up as fast as the Red Bull of Verstappen. This is an issue Mercedes have had before, Lewis's car set up seems to be particularly prone to not being good at getting the tyres switch back on after cooling.

It may be that British drivers don't attract the same level of home sponsorship that overseas drivers are enjoying.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:44 pm

Just been watching the race from Austin and hardly the most exciting of races and I'm not overly keen on the circuit, IMO rather a boring layout. Hamilton certainly seems to love it there and his race pace was too much for Vettel on this occasion. Appreciation naturally to Verstappen starting from 16th and then sending up the inside of Kimi's Ferrari on the final lap to grab what would have been an impressive podium had the stewards not got involved. Were they too harsh/unjustified to hand the post race penalty???

US GP also marked Mercedes nailing the constructors title for the fourth time but again IMO not one race that will stick in the memory too much... time to move on to Mexico. :/
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:09 am

After Hamilton passed Vettel on the 6th lap the result was almost a foregone conclusion. Ferrari did try an alternative strategy near the end but it didn't work. Verstappen was penalised for gaining an advantage when overtaking Raikkenon by leaving the track. This penalty has been consistently applied for some seasons now.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:33 am

SubHuman wrote:After Hamilton passed Vettel on the 6th lap the result was almost a foregone conclusion. Ferrari did try an alternative strategy near the end but it didn't work. Verstappen was penalised for gaining an advantage when overtaking Raikkenon by leaving the track. This penalty has been consistently applied for some seasons now.


This is quite a contentious issue and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbCHTgn3nro there is a good analysis of 'exceeding track limits' which could have included other drivers, including Hamilton's pole position qualifying lap getting penalties.

Oh yes, and this is just how much it means, back at the factory for Mercedes to get a fourth Constructors title... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19p8-YP2oDY which makes it clearer when a driver is thanking his team for all the hard work!
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:29 am

sarah t wrote:
SubHuman wrote:After Hamilton passed Vettel on the 6th lap the result was almost a foregone conclusion. Ferrari did try an alternative strategy near the end but it didn't work. Verstappen was penalised for gaining an advantage when overtaking Raikkenon by leaving the track. This penalty has been consistently applied for some seasons now.


This is quite a contentious issue and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbCHTgn3nro there is a good analysis of 'exceeding track limits' which could have included other drivers, including Hamilton's pole position qualifying lap getting penalties.

Oh yes, and this is just how much it means, back at the factory for Mercedes to get a fourth Constructors title... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19p8-YP2oDY which makes it clearer when a driver is thanking his team for all the hard work!


The FIA deems stewards to be "judges of fact" so it doesn't matter how contentious people think there decisions are they will stand.

The thing I don't understand is why Verstappen wasn't told immediately to give up the position, which would have given him another chance to pass Raikkonen legally, or was it too close to the end?

As regards leaving the track this is often slower than staying on so if the stewards decided Hamilton gained no advantage on his pole qualifying lap then no penalty would be applied.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:46 pm

Charlie Whiting gave an interview recently were he claimed the stewards have this year been consistently applying the "exceeding track limits" rule. However many commentators disagree with this claim. Years ago if teams didn't like the stewards adjudication they could lodge a protest and go to an FIA tribunal in Paris. The problems with this were that the tribunal usually upheld the stewards decisions and the race result was provisional until the tribunal had made their decision. This ment that at the end of a season it could be weeks before the final result of a championship was decided.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:07 am

Well the Mexican GP was a strange affair with Verstappen's win being rather eclipsed by Vettel losing the drivers championship and Hamilton winning it. Vettel really need to win this race to stay in the hunt.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:05 pm

SubHuman wrote:Well the Mexican GP was a strange affair with Verstappen's win being rather eclipsed by Vettel losing the drivers championship and Hamilton winning it. Vettel really need to win this race to stay in the hunt.


Well not just Vettel needing to win he really wanted some misfortune to also put Hamilton out of the race... he tried IMO dirty tricks at the beginning causing the puncture but that I think rather smacks of desperation and also wrecked his chances of taking the victory. I tried watching all the race yesterday on Channel 4 On Demand but soon got bored with it... can't really think what else happened other than Ricardo retiring and a bad race for both Torro Rosso cars. Fantastic achievement that Hamilton is now a 'Four Time World Champion', doesn't that sound great! =D ... but IMO richly deserved considering what a fight he has had against Vettel and Ferrari all season. Guess we got to look lower down the pecking order for excitement in Brazil and Abu Dhabi but they are truly great tracks and I myself am still looking forward to the final two races of this season.
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:39 pm

I think Vettel had lost control trying to stop Verstappen overtaking and then the coming together with Hamilton was just an accident. Both Vettel and Hamilton made good recovery drives but it just wasn't enough for Vettel. I gather Hamilton is already thinking about a fifth driver's championship.
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:42 am

SubHuman wrote:..I gather Hamilton is already thinking about a fifth driver's championship.


Well why not?... as he has clearly enjoyed the new challenge of fighting a driver from another team (Ferrari, particularly in the hands of Vettel have been pretty awesome for most of the season but too many times they 'shot themselves in the foot' in both the team and the drivers (hello Singapore! ;) )with 2017 seeing him have to claw his way back from such a points deficit in the run up to Hungary and now with the renewed challenge of the ever emerging talent of [Max] Verstappen whom has the potential to take the title away from him.
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby Vogl » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:48 am

SubHuman wrote:I think Vettel had lost control trying to stop Verstappen overtaking and then the coming together with Hamilton was just an accident. Both Vettel and Hamilton made good recovery drives but it just wasn't enough for Vettel. I gather Hamilton is already thinking about a fifth driver's championship.


I hope Vettel pulls it together and wins a championsip again after a few years.
Vogl
New member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:59 am

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby SubHuman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:30 am

Vogl wrote:
SubHuman wrote:I think Vettel had lost control trying to stop Verstappen overtaking and then the coming together with Hamilton was just an accident. Both Vettel and Hamilton made good recovery drives but it just wasn't enough for Vettel. I gather Hamilton is already thinking about a fifth driver's championship.


I hope Vettel pulls it together and wins a championsip again after a few years.


That rather depends on Ferrari giving him a race winning car. Actually if this year's car hadn't developed reliability issues and without the coming together with Raikkonen Vettel might still be leading this year's drivers championship!
SubHuman
Member
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: 2017... Formula 1 thread

Postby sarah t » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:15 am

Admittedly stunning drive starting from the pit lane to finish an eventual fourth but aside from Hamilton's fantastic charge through the field I think the Brazilian GP rather lacked that special sparkle to it. Aside from the usual suspects taking the top six places at the chequered flag I guess the main enjoyment of the race was lower down. Stunning drive from Massa, in his last home race with a great start and battling hard to keep a feisty Alonso and Perez behind him to claim a well deserved seventh place for the Williams team. Grosjean was a 'bit if a muppet' sliding into Ocon on the opening lap with the Force India driver gaining two punctures and his first retirement for a very, very long time. Can't understand why it took the stewards such a long time before giving him a penalty for his antics by which time it was meaningless as he was meandering around at the back of the field. Bit of a shame that the weather was so perfect as I think one or two heavy downpours during the race might have spiced things up. Ah well guess we turn our attentions to Abu Dhabi to finish off this season.
:/
User avatar
sarah t
Member
 
Posts: 2866
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Southampton

Previous

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests